about undead

an ordinary animate dead spell is evil

evil why?

(d x d - 3.5e and 5e)

Virtue ethics

because it defiles a person's body? because it goes against society? - no good person would do that, you'd think

that's cultural. surely it doesn't apply everywhere

Kantian

because it goes against the natural rules of the universe?

well, who wrote those rules? not the undead

that's just not fair for necromancers

Utilitarian

because undead that you're creating are all evil beings by nature? even the casting of the spell is enough to pollute the universe irreversibly... or make people suffer in incalculable ways

if that's so, then it's not inherently evil

if you'd just come this way and cast a good spell a hundred times to cancel out its casting. wash your sins away.

then why?

animate dead and some other forms of necromancy fill out all three criteria

not like many other magics

first - you enslave the body

make it move again

second - you enslave the will

make it so that the corpus cannot even think of saying no to your orders

third - you enslave the soul

animate dead makes everyone equal under the rules of magic. erase the person-shell, the memory, the life that was lived, that was once there, and replace it with a mocking puppet.

sure, it might theoretically be able to be reversed

but that's no small miracle

magic is already an unusual and - say - unknowable thing

unlike alchemy and astrology

very few know how animate dead works

even fewer can reverse triple slavery, let alone when it's done on the scales of towns and cities and even civilizations


evil is not a physical danger. just speaking words and waving your hands and making things arise with a snap of your fingers isn't enough to commit evil. just having command over the elements and life and death isn't enough to be evil or good.

evil is an intellectual danger, one which is sometimes described as physical (devils and demons and wraiths and toxic sins) and of course takes many physical forms, but ultimately still intellectual. devils and demons come from the outer planes, the plane of thoughts and forms, remember?

some writers say that to be a caster of necromancy, you have to understand it first

innately understand its philosophy

lose respect for what death is, what it means here - in that you will blaspheme against the concept of death itself in your works.

become blind to what nature and society are - why we are innately tied to them - and turn towards something else. see the dead as a resource that isn't being used enough. see them as one that could free us from toil, short lives, hunger, and all of our wants.

there is no price that makes animate dead worth using. only someone who has turned away from the idea of good - someone so disgusting that they could barely even fit into the category of neutral - sees otherwise.

virtue ethics, kantian ethics, utilitarian ethics, are methods of argumentation. they won't decide for you what is and isn't good, they will only show you a possible path.

you might like to decide instead

to ask why people think one way (necromantically) or another way (dnd's definition of good). to ask which is better, from your perspective.

to understand, philosophically, whether those conceptions are built on love or hate, respect or disrespect.

in that sense, there are many realities where animate dead is good, many of which are hard to distinguish from d x d.

there are many realities where scorning the homeless and wantonly slaughtering your neighbors is good - many of which are hard to distinguish from the real world.

(is it? what about war? what about collateral? what about unnecessary suffering, about good, proud people, and their homes?)

(what about the enemy?)

in that sense, it's hard to decide no matter which ethical theory you see

Comments

  1. blaspheming against the concept of death... does that mean that "respecting the concept of death and its prevalence in all structures of society" makes you good?
    what is wrong with seeing that as unjust? fighting against it?
    well, nothing really
    but many evils are just the absence of good
    many evils seem harmless
    and for the most part, might actually be harmless in a certain time and place

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    Replies
    1. of course, you might find that "firebolt" is absent of good too for not respecting how hard it is to make a fire in this day and age or some shit
      well, firebolt isn't exactly "good" in any way but it's not evil
      as in
      it isn't really any different than if you just had a spray can and a match
      there's no matching analogy for most undead spells
      i could see this line of reasoning failing for hideously powerful spells, both because they become more abstract and because they have the potential to change, to fight things the same way that you would fight the concept of death (which could make them evil too)
      they do, but not as many of them are ones that you would argue for being inherently evil, just because they seem a lot more like mundane methods of violating peoples' rights. if you can think of any that you might suggest are inherently evil (and, by comparison, make it seem unfair that animate dead is being singled out) then i might look at them
      (dream: what if you could murder people in their sleep? teleport, scrying: what if privacy was meaningless? wish: ... what if?)

      Delete
  2. or maybe animate dead is just evil the same way that people who build cars out of orphans is evil
    you never had to build a car out of orphans. you could've done literally anything else instead
    similarly, using animate objects isn't evil (on its own) but using it to animate dead people is; using firebolt isn't evil (on its own) but using firebolt to animate dead people is.

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  3. there is a point in the last 5 lines, and the bits about evil being an intellectual hazard -
    to see animating dead as "okay" to do, you have to go through a lot of mental gymnastics
    - to see the enslavement of the animating spirit of the undead as "okay"
    - or to simply refuse to see these animating spirits as people, or to think it's okay because it's like community service for evil animating spirits or because they're not the same as human souls or something
    - to value *labor* over *people* (no, valuing people over undead while also believing that enslaving undead is wrong is not contradictory). this one im not really sure about
    - to see the undead that you've created as not something intrinsically different than the corpse it was before, even if you destroy it (or find a cleric to destroy it)
    i'm not saying that holding these as truths is wrong... but it is in the dnd universe that the player's handbook describes

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